tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post3476694297434085572..comments2024-03-23T05:42:07.516-04:00Comments on The Deliberate Agrarian: Our Family Vacation 2007 (Part 3): Lancaster AmishHerrick Kimballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-73355114169160825452007-10-17T07:56:00.000-04:002007-10-17T07:56:00.000-04:00I have finally posted an explanation of the Amish ...I have finally posted an explanation of the Amish "ordnung" over on my blog... http://michaelbunker.com/journal.html<BR/><BR/>Herrick, I do not want to be Amish either, but like you, we here in our community have learned a lot by studying them, and if we can be anywhere near as successful in raising our children and holding together our community, we will be pleased.<BR/><BR/>God BlessMichael Bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480186948086853961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-56380122179214052362007-10-06T08:20:00.000-04:002007-10-06T08:20:00.000-04:00Thanks everyone for your comments here. Rural Utah...Thanks everyone for your comments here. <BR/><BR/>Rural Utahn--<BR/>I will blog in response to your question soon.<BR/><BR/>jules--<BR/>The movie did not explain why the Amish numbers have doubled. The movie did say that some people "convert" to being Amish but it is rare. <BR/><BR/>There is an older man in my church who gives rides to the Amish. He understands their culture very well. He even looks Amish. I asked him if outsiders ever join an Amish community. He said it happens but not often. He knows of one yong man who was from the city who knew nothing about Amish culture or farming and ended up becoming Amish. He had to learn to speak German. Eventually he married an Amish girl and now has a farm in Lancaster. So it happens.<BR/><BR/>It is more often that people join the Mennonites. I know people around me who have become Mennonite in recent years. The Mennonites are, as Michael says, essentially Baptists. <BR/><BR/>By the way, I was surprised to learn that the Amish do not play musical instruments. I asked the man in my church about this. He said the Lancaster Amish play harmonicas (but not in church), and they are real good with them.<BR/><BR/>I asked if he had ever been to a church service. He has and he told me they have church in a different home in the community every two weeks. Church lasts all day long.<BR/><BR/>I am intrigued by the Amish. I think we can learn from the example of these successful Christian sepratists. But I do not want to be Amish.Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-6299548273258735782007-10-05T14:05:00.000-04:002007-10-05T14:05:00.000-04:00Alison,I didn't think about it until later, but I ...Alison,<BR/><BR/>I didn't think about it until later, but I think I finally figured out what you were saying. The confusion was likely on my end. I think you are saying that the Amish should not utilize "English" drivers because by doing so they are causing them to do what the Amish reject for themselves and their families...<BR/><BR/>I don't want to take up Herrick's time and space with a long explanation, but I do understand what you are saying and will post an explanation on my blog sometime today: http://michaelbunker.com/journal.html<BR/><BR/>If you want to check it out.<BR/><BR/>Michael BunkerMichael Bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480186948086853961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-41228689214800975622007-10-04T22:45:00.000-04:002007-10-04T22:45:00.000-04:00Jules,The growth in the Amish population is both i...Jules,<BR/><BR/>The growth in the Amish population is both internal and external. There are a really shocking number of people who convert to the Amish/Mennonite sects every year - most are people who are looking for a more simple and structured way of life. The greatest percentage of the growth is internal as the younger people "join" the Church as young adults. We have to remember that, unlike most nominal "churches" in America, the Amish do not accept babies or youngsters as members, and therefore they are not counted in the membership of the Church. Each individual has to make a decision to join the Church as a baptized adult (usually over 15), at which time he or she is added to the number and the membership. While some Amish communities have had horrible problems with their children, as a whole, they do much better than the world around them in raising up their children to become productive and spiritual members of the Church.<BR/><BR/>I hope this helps,<BR/><BR/>Michael BunkerMichael Bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480186948086853961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-62823358520828168372007-10-04T22:39:00.000-04:002007-10-04T22:39:00.000-04:00alison,Thanks for the clarification. I guess I wa...alison,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was mainly reacting to the use of the term "hypocrisy" because it is so readily thrown about in relation to "anyone who is more separated than me", which is generally the "why" of why the term is used. I am just saying that I can see perfectly good reasons for not owning a car, and for hiring a car to take me to town. It is both logical and rational and not hypocritical. I totally agree that the use of automobiles has been completely detrimental to the idea of family and of right Christian living, which is why I am moving towards not having one as soon as possible.<BR/><BR/>I guess I didn't know that it was the Amish who were the ones driving other Amish to Wal-Mart (who would ANYONE shop at walmart anyway?). I thought from your original post that it was the "English" who were profiting off of taking the Amish to the store. In that case, it would hardly bother their consciences to make a profit off of the Amish. Now, if the Amish are driving other Amish to town - that really wouldn't make any sense.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks for the clarification.<BR/><BR/>Michael BunkerMichael Bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480186948086853961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-53945050081797369262007-10-04T13:44:00.000-04:002007-10-04T13:44:00.000-04:00Michael, I think I may not have made my point clea...Michael, I think I may not have made my point clearly enough. I did not mean to say that the Amish should jump headlong into being "worldly", however that term is defined. Not at all. As a homeschooling mother with 9 children and a small farm, I admire the Amish community's desire to stay family-centered. I don't feel the least bit condemned or defensive, as you suggested, by their lifestyle. <BR/><BR/>My point was about the driver of the Amish, actually. What about his family? How is he supposed to stay connected to his family when his living (being a hired driver for the Amish) requires him to be on call all day, or out driving all day? Of course, no one is forcing him to do that for a living; I realize that. Is a family-centered life a good thing for everyone, or just certain groups of people? That's the rhetorical question I'm grappling with here. <BR/><BR/>I guess my point is if family-centeredness is a good thing, then don't engage in activities that would weaken someone else's family. Or, put another way, do what you can to encourage and enable other families to stay together. <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry I wasn't very adept at explaining myself the first time. I hope I've done better this go round.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-5057375372623539732007-10-03T17:35:00.000-04:002007-10-03T17:35:00.000-04:00You stated in your post: "Nevertheless, according ...You stated in your post: "Nevertheless, according to the movie, the numbers of Amish have doubled in the past 20 years."<BR/><BR/>I guess my question is: Is this because of them having more children or immigration? I guess I've not heard of people converting, or Amish taking 'outsiders' in marriage.<BR/><BR/>Can you explain this a bit more from what you gleaned from the movie?juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16351247097680979735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-17265019900194597802007-10-03T14:59:00.000-04:002007-10-03T14:59:00.000-04:00First point, brother Herrick... the Amish are Bapt...First point, brother Herrick... the Amish are Baptists. The Amish/Mennonites are the original anabaptists from whom we Baptists have derived our name.<BR/><BR/>As for hypocrisy...<BR/><BR/>While the Amish are hypocritical like any other Christian, it is hardly hypocritical to pay someone to take you to the store. There are multitudes of advantages in not diving full-on into worldliness, even if you utilize some worldly things. That is like saying that everyone should own their own hair dryer factory just because they like to use a hair dryer. It is common for people to feel defensive when someone else chooses to forego something that they allow. They feel condemned when the Amish refuse to buy cars. The Amish do feel that ready access to an automobile is negative to their idea of family and their way of life. They are correct. Having to rent a ride makes them recognize the cost, and make decisions based on facts rather than on "at the moment" impulses. It always amazes me when people have this "either/or" mentality, like the Amish should completely forego all material things altogether OR they should just dive into the world headfirst and not worry about how it affects the family.<BR/><BR/>Something to think about,<BR/><BR/>Michael BunkerMichael Bunkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480186948086853961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-59662713901280297852007-10-02T13:03:00.000-04:002007-10-02T13:03:00.000-04:00"...maybe our fast-paced modern lifestyle isn’t wo...<I>"...maybe our fast-paced modern lifestyle isn’t worth sustaining."</I><BR/><BR/>Hmmm...I think you're on to something.Dreamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16420110187274690041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-38538359146035158152007-10-02T12:13:00.000-04:002007-10-02T12:13:00.000-04:00I just stumbled upon your blog. It's great! I ju...I just stumbled upon your blog. It's great! I just ordered your book. Any advice for a young person starting out, trying to switch over to the agrarian lifestyle?Rural Utahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09311065021579891514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-45976351148609924592007-10-01T11:54:00.000-04:002007-10-01T11:54:00.000-04:00Alison must live fairly near me. I too lived in t...Alison must live fairly near me. I too lived in the largest population of Amish up in Holmes & Wayne counties in Ohio. I am just about 40 mins. south of that now and live among the most primitive of the Amish now.... the Swartzentrubers. The Amish have many things right, but they are human just like we are. I love the way they work as a family and as a community. I love how they care for the elderly. They take care of their parents. Just like any other group of people, there is a lot to learn and try to emulate and there is a lot to discard.Marcihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00837798938089334872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-71841762027114202312007-09-30T15:28:00.000-04:002007-09-30T15:28:00.000-04:00Your vacation sounds like a lot of fun, and I love...Your vacation sounds like a lot of fun, and I love the hat!<BR/><BR/>We live on the edge of the largest Amish community in the country. I hate to sound cynical, but the Amish are not as separate from the world as it seems. Driving the Amish to Walmart or the grocery store or any number of places is a fairly lucrative business for many people here. I know people whose sole income is from driving Amish people around. I also know people who provide electrical outlets to the Amish so they can charge their cell phones.<BR/><BR/>I just find it slightly hypocritical to suggest, as the Amish do, that not having a vehicle helps keep the family together but at the same time being comfortable hiring the person who owns the vehicle. I guess as long as it's someone else's family that is being separated it's ok.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com