tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post8355634307863437703..comments2024-03-18T08:03:17.059-04:00Comments on The Deliberate Agrarian: The Agrarian Writings ofO.E. Baker(Part 6)Herrick Kimballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-43090447337692955142016-04-06T19:07:09.137-04:002016-04-06T19:07:09.137-04:00Pam,
I suppose my own family is a part of this st...Pam, <br />I suppose my own family is a part of this story. My grandfather left VT (Lincoln?)in his early 20s, and I have no idea what happened to the family home his mother grew up in. My dad, whose photo was taken as a young vacationing boy on the front porch of the farmhouse, has since passed away. I would love to know where the old homestead was and who owns it now, but really have no idea where to look. (It belonged to the Hanks family, and I believe they owned a sawmill as well....?) On the other side of my family was a 100-acre farm full of orchards in Plainview, MI. No telling what has happened to that, either. <br />Joel Salatin has some interesting ideas on passing the farm to the next generation (I think they are found in his book "Family Friendly Farming.") Basically, it entails a transfer of title while the older members of the family are still living. But a trust is a very interesting idea, too.clinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04608881966182992515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-78315080676389049812016-04-05T22:02:28.354-04:002016-04-05T22:02:28.354-04:00I can't tell you how here in Vermont how many ...I can't tell you how here in Vermont how many 50-100 acre properties sit empty most of the year after having been bought by non-residents who "modernize" the 1800's farmhouse and then let some of the pastures go back because the revere trees so highly. Then they sell off some of the land to other people who put up McMansions....its just disgusting. You would have a stroke if I told you what our taxes are on our new 66acre homestead. They are literaly 10x what we paid for the same size house in Colorado. Granted that was on 1/2 an acre. We have to pay a forester to develop a plan and put a majority of it into current use or agriculture and then grieve the taxes to our rinkydink town to get them to a reasonable amount. I would have to work at my hospital job for 2 1/2 months just to pay the taxes. But, it's rural, quiet and private. And no one can tell us what we can do with the land. <br />We've talked about what to do with it when one or both of us die as we had no children. We have one nephew and great nephew who we never see. Seems a shame we will put so much into this only to not have anyone to pass on a tradition to. But that is the plan God gave us and we must make the best of it. Maybe some one or thing will change before our time is up.<br />Och, I'm rambling.<br />Great postings and great comments by all.<br />Respectfully, PamAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14210768437726876770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-82098188624082676742016-04-05T17:23:23.027-04:002016-04-05T17:23:23.027-04:00Hi Herrick, Been reading these every day and I jus...Hi Herrick, Been reading these every day and I just continue to be overwhelmed with feelings of loss and despair for what my kids have, or rather don't have in their future. At one time back in the beginnings of the last century my family owned all of the abutting land surrounding the present "homestead" of about two acres! Homestead is how this piece is listed in the town tax records. There is NO possibility of buying back any of the land due to the ridiculous land prices, about $800K to a <br />$1M for an acre! I tell my guys to just hang on as best you can, always looking to the future with a prepper mentality. After all the fuel, electricity and food is gone, all those million dollar homes will make a fine supply of firewood for a few years! I have quite a supply of tools you would need to retrieve your wood supply for a winter. Saws, axes, files to keep them sharp. The list goes on and on. Great series. Just made 30 more shade discs to try with my parsnips, and other veggies.<br />My evening reading these days is rereading the Whizbang idea book! Happy planting. OBTW, this years three hogs arrive tomorrow! Best, Everett ELittlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614884616908281632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-14111580570548597172016-04-05T14:07:05.555-04:002016-04-05T14:07:05.555-04:00I see that there are several online articles about...I see that there are several online articles about <a href="http://feakeslaw.com/how-to-preserve-a-family-vacation-home-with-a-trust/" rel="nofollow">Preserving a Family Vacation Home With a Trust</a><br /><br />Seems like the same principle would hold true for any piece of land and real estate. The problem for me would be that of funding an endowment to handle maintenance expenses. That's way outside my socio-economic paradigm.<br /><br />But there may be useful concepts that can be adapted for less prosperous families. It looks like a Limited Liability Family Partnership may be another way to go.<br /><br />Too bad this sort of thing has to be so complicated. And expensive. :-(<br /> Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-62752649504395516392016-04-05T13:45:30.066-04:002016-04-05T13:45:30.066-04:00T.S—
I'm thinking an irrevocable trust will l...T.S—<br /><br />I'm thinking an irrevocable trust will legally preserve and protect a property for generations. Not the more common revocable trust. No one in the family would own the land, but they could have use of it. And it is protected from liens & etc.<br /><br />But I'm surmising at this point. <br /><br />There is some discussion about protecting family land <a href="http://www.permies.com/t/9793/homestead/Family-Land-Trusts" rel="nofollow">At This Permies Discussion</a>.<br /><br />Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-21060873776213891102016-04-05T13:14:28.535-04:002016-04-05T13:14:28.535-04:00One of the factors that prevent long term ownershi...One of the factors that prevent long term ownership of family farms is tax law. The transfer costs are huge. So unless some holding company type arrangement can be made, and legal, we face the issue of continuing to lose family farms. <br /><br />Item of note -- The average age of farm owners is 62. Tucanae Serviceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11935170696138248693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-6117129534331920682016-04-05T08:06:26.906-04:002016-04-05T08:06:26.906-04:00Some further thoughts on the preceding...
At this...Some further thoughts on the preceding...<br /><br />At this point in time. I think the "solution" to the consolidation and loss of family farms is for agrarian-minded families to establish themselves on a small section of affordable land. It is still possible to buy a few rural acres for a reasonable price in many areas of the country. <br /><br />If that is done by a lot of people, and those people make their small section of land productive, while generating the majority of their income from home-based cottage industries, we would have a resilient smallholder class. A new type of yeomanry. Not farmers but self-reliant homesteaders.<br /><br />These homesteads could, in time, be developed with long-term goals and deliberately passed on to future generations in the family. A multi-generational smallholding instead of a farm. <br /><br />I'm trying to figure out how best to do this. I think some sort of family land trust might be the answer. I know a family around me that has done this with 100 acres. I don't know anyone else who has done it, or even cares to do it. It would be land for some to live on, but for all to enjoy and utilize in productive ways if they so choose. If future generations have a secure spot of family land, they have a measure of security that a paper-and-digital financial inheritance can't offer.<br /><br />This is just food for thought in the midst of the agrarian struggle.<br /><br />Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-80733169991937739172016-04-05T07:49:11.136-04:002016-04-05T07:49:11.136-04:00Pam—
Good observation about the aging farmers and...Pam—<br /><br />Good observation about the aging farmers and their ranches not being able to support the children in farming. O.E. Baker actually writes quite a bit about that exact problem. It is a great concern to him, but he is pretty much at a loss to offer a good solution to the problem. His story about the German farmers is offered as an ideal example, in contrast to the crisis he saw happening in America.<br /><br />He explains that the American farmer's children would go to the cities for work opportunities and became established in their urban life and careers. They would go to the city because there were limited opportunities on their parent's farm or in the rural communities. Then, when the parents died (while on the farm) the children would inherit and rent the farm out to a tenement farmer, or sell and divide the money. The farms would often be purchased by city people, who had the money to pay a high price. Other farmers in the community, or aspiring farmers, wouldn't have the money to afford the high prices of land.<br /><br />Or, one son would follow his father in farming and take over the farm, but if he had siblings, he would have to borrow money to buy them out and hold onto the farm. Thus putting his future success at risk.<br /><br />The problem with tenement farming, from O.E.'s perspective was that the farmers and their families were not secure on their land, AND tenement farmers rarely care for the land they rent like they would if it were their own.<br /><br />It would appear that this problem has only gotten worse in our day, as once-productive small family farms have been sold to urbans who don't work them, or who rent them out, or the farms have been absorbed into enormous agribusiness "farms." I have seen it around here in my lifetime, and it is probably more of an issue where you live in VT. After all, a "summer home" in Vermont is the dream of many successful urban people in the Northeast. It's a good investment, right?<br /><br />I'm sure that, within families that care about preserving a family farm, there are wise ways to pass the farm on to the next generation (I think Joel Salatin has written about this), but these are the exception to the rule. It's a sad situation.<br /><br />If someone like O.E. Baker, with his knowledge of agriculture and "the numbers" couldn't offer a good solution to the problem, I don't know that there is a solution. It will have to play itself out. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-26197665789347998732016-04-05T07:07:01.306-04:002016-04-05T07:07:01.306-04:00Pam—
I wondered the same thing about the farms. My...Pam—<br />I wondered the same thing about the farms. My guess is that the bauern farms are not what they once were. OE Baker wrote for this book probably in 1938, and he said he had visited Germany 5 years earlier. So it would appear that the peasant farms survived WW1, but I'm thinking that WW2 and the rise of industrial agriculture had a devastating impact on that way of life.<br /><br />I did do a little Google searching and found <a href="http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1550" rel="nofollow">This Link</a> that told about the Nazi effort to preserve these family farms. Interesting.Herrick Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116051416696885647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13729569.post-59850503177979802016-04-05T05:54:35.990-04:002016-04-05T05:54:35.990-04:00I don't know about anyone else, but I would lo...I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to be a peasant farmer!!! I wonder what it is like today, eighty years later? Are all those Bauern farms still in the same families<br />and actively productive?<br /><br />One thing I saw out in Colorado, around Steamboat Springs, to be exact, was large ranches with aging farmers. The adult children mostly moved away because the ranches couldn't support more than one family (in their minds and with today's consumer minded mentality). They might carve out a small piece of land to put up a trailer home but would be hounded by high taxes due to the ski resort's presence. No working class person could afford a simple home within 30-40 miles of Steamboat. They couldn't sell the mobile home when they couldn't keep up with the taxes but a rich person would buy it, trash the trailer, putting up a McMansion...further driving up taxes. Now the ranches were worth money because of the amount of land and the children were gone so the ranch was sold to rich folk as second homes and ranching stopped or greatly curtailed. So much for the heritage of western ranching.<br />In Ireland, it was the custom to divide the land among the boys...which ended up after a few generations, making farms of one acre, barely subsistence farming. This was one factor in the Great Famine, or so I've read. <br />Interesting series Mr. Kimball. Thanks for sharing.<br />PamAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14210768437726876770noreply@blogger.com