Dateline: 6 February 2016
In 1787, Thomas Jefferson famously wrote...
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants; it is its natural manure."
Today, people who cherish the Constitution of the United States, and the rule of law, as laid out in that Constitution, are considered dangerous extremists. Lavoy Finnicum, the Oregon rancher in the above video, is such an example.
Prior to being killed by agents of the US government in a preplanned ambush on a lonely rural road, Mr. Finnicum had never had so much as a traffic ticket.
I have read online comments by Americans who are glad that the government employed an enormous amount of money, manpower and military force to kill Mr. Finnicum.
I think it behoves all rational Americans to understand what Lavoy Finnicum believed in, was willing to die for, and ultimately did die for. Before you swallow the mainstream media's story about this man, take 1/2 hour of your time and listen to him tell his story in that video. I think you will be surprised.
There are a couple more quotes that come to my mind here. This first one is for those who think Lavoy Finnicum was a law breaker who deserved what he got.
"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck." —Frederick Douglass
In other words, if you are all in favor of Lavoy's long-held property rights being taken away by an unlawful bureaucracy, don't be surprised when your own property rights are taken away.
And this quote is something to really think about...
And this quote is something to really think about...
"If you don't believe in something enough to die for it, you're not really living." —Unknown
I believe you meant 1787, as Thomas Jefferson died in 1826.
ReplyDeleteThanks for pointing out my mistake. I've corrected it. :-)
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for posting this. I didn't know Lavoy had his own issues with the govt. Very intelligent man.
ReplyDeleteI live a lot closer to these parts than you do. Somebody fell for a story alright and it wasn't one from the mainstream media. He went somewhere he wasn't wanted to do something he had no right to do and after weeks of patience and after begging from people who ACTUALLY live in Oregon enough was enough. Since when did serving an arrest warrant become an ambush? Since when did lack of prior criminal record protect one from ever being arrested - under that theory no one could ever be arrested because there has to be a first. Plenty of terrorists and serial murderers had no prior criminal records. From someone who used to work in a prison I would have thought you would have picked up some understanding of how security and tactical decisions are made when an arrest is going to be made. Since your hero refused to pull over, then tried to blow through the roadblock and reached for his belt twice, what happened is exactly what would have happened no matter who it was. I watched the video of that shooting by the way. But all somebody has to do is say patriot or say Constitution or say freedom or God and I guess there is a whole crowd of people who decide you get to do whatever you want. Not my hero. I'll put my husband up instead - who actually wore a uniform for this country, still does. He didn't parade around misquoting the Constitution and waving a flag and a gun begging for attention and threatening people but quietly does his part and bares his wounds quietly too. He has been deployed three times and it makes me sick to see these people turned into heroes when I know what others have done so selflessly. I hope you haven't been following this from the beginning and are just grossly misinformed because the alternative is pretty sickening.
ReplyDeleteThe flag is bits of colored cloth used to brainwash people...then it is used as a ceremonial shroud to cover our soldiers whom die needlessly for profit.our soldiers have no f**** buisness in other countries..Lavoy Finnicum died for something... truth..
DeleteSeems to me an arrest warrant could have been served by simply meeting the man and handing it to him. From what I understand, law enforcement could have done this on many occasions without setting up a roadblock with so many people with guns strategically positioned in the woods and elsewhere. Seems to me an arrest warrant could have been served without shooting the vehicle full of holes, in an apparant effort to kill the rest of the passengers, after Finnicum was killed outside the vehicle. Were the passengers shooting back? I've heard they were not. I've listened to the testimony of one woman in the vehicle who was on the floor thinking she was surely going to die.
ReplyDeleteMy interest in this whole thing was not that great until after Finnicum was killed. The video above is the first time I've ever heard Mr. Finnicum speak and explain his position. He comes across as a decent, principled man. I don't know how anyone could come to any other conclusion, based on that video. Did you watch it?
We live in a tyranny. Constitutional rights are eroding. Property rights are being taken away from Americans in many ways. Individual property rights are fundamental to freedom and liberty. At least that's the way it was supposed to be, and once was.
I'm surprised that your husband, as a veteran or active duty soldier, does not recognize the error of a government that has gone way beyond it's Constitutional boundaries here in this country, and beyond. There are plenty of veterans in the patriot movement who take their oath to uphold the Constitution seriously and who have selflessly sacrificed much for this country through their military service. They are not content to keep their mouths shut when they see their country falling apart before their eyes. Silence is no virtue in the face of tyranny.
I'm not justifying the takeover of that bird sanctuary (or whatever it was) but I can understand the frustration those who did it have, and I think I understand that Lavoy Finnicum was a decent and brave man who was justifiably angry about what he saw happening to his country. The video of the killing is not clear. There are lots of unanswered questions. There is more to this than meets the eye. Our government and the government-controlled media routinely lies to us about just about everything. I'm skeptical.
Anonymous #2- evidently you don't know your constitution. Thank you Mr. Kimball for posting this video & a very good reply to anonymous#2.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I agree with Herrick on the concept. He's right. Secondly, there's always two sides to every story, somewhere in the middle lies the truth. Thirdly, the term "Hero" is bantered about way too much these days. Why the mere fact that someone's in the military makes them a hero, right?
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, the missionaries that travel voluntarily to foreign and often hostile lands, that daily face seemingly insurmountable odds and persecution, and even death, to preach the Gospel and of our Lord & Savior Jesus, these folks are the true hero's.
In summary, this nation once embraced God's word. We once obeyed scripture and the teachings of our Lord & Savior Jesus. Accordingly, we as a nation were blessed for many, many, years. Now, we've grossly deviated from His word and have become a hedonistic society. A man's word now means nothing, morality and integrity is a thing of the past. Don't believe it, just look around at the so called "Leaders" of this country and at most that want to lead, many, many wolves in sheep's clothing.
Absolute power corrupts and the root of all evil comes from the lust of money. Now a days in this country there's nothing that you can't get, or get out of, all you need is enough money.
In so much as I will continue to pray for revival, I'm afraid that our Father has now turned this country over to the evil one. "Be in the world, not of it" rings ever so true.
herrick,
ReplyDeleteright on, brother!
the ranchers were merely having what would have been called a sit-in in the 60's;
well within their rights as american citizens to sue for redress of grievances.
LaVoy was murdered just like the lady in ruby ridge.
we are already living in a state of oppression.
i think 'anonymous' must be one of those frogs who started in the cool water and hasn't noticed the heat has been turned up.
if more men like LaVoy, if we have any left, do not stand up now, the whole way of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is lost.
i think we are beyond the point of no return.
only God can save us.
i am praying for all of those people and their families. may God preserve them and give them victory.
Thanks once again for bringing clarity to a murky subject. I am wondering if this isn't a part of that whole climate change juggernaut? Most of the land out west is best used for raising grass fed beef. Those animal rights / environmentalists are actually doing the most harm.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you've seen this, but it is worth the watch.
http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change
I was skeptical when the Lavoy Finnicum shooting video was released. It is way too far away to show what was happening on the ground. This one is going to have to play out in the courts but I am guessing the ranchers out there are going to get squashed.
Thanks, Herrick, I haven't watched the video yet, but knew that the ranchers must have done something drastic because ALL other avenues with the federal government had failed; and for decades I bet! And I figured the whole issue and incident were because of the federal government's gradual, under-handed removal of the use of our lands. It's a part of socialism. God will help us; but, sometimes lives will be sacrificed before the people rise up against their corrupt government.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this article and video on Mr. Finnicum. For more info on the overreach of the BLM and other govt agencies against ranchers in the We81st please read Range magazine or visit them online at www.rangemagazine.com
ReplyDeleteCorrection... Mr. Lavoy Finnicum is from Utah. Please keep all these ranchers including the Finnicum family in your prayers.
ReplyDeleteI stand with you and your conclusions about the whole sordid affair. I also think that just serving in the military does not make you a hero. I was in for twenty + years and on one occasion while in flight managed to save my own life and in doing so prevented the death of two other folks. It was an act of self preservation on my part no "heroic" acts involved!
ReplyDeleteI like to think I would have the courage of my convictions and be able to stand up to the unelected , thuggish, bureaucrats who actually do rule this country by unlawful fiat. But when they do come for my guns, they WILL have to take them by lethal force ,for I will not willingly submit to these scumbags!
It's worth noting that in the American Declaration of Independence, the colonists,were upset that Great Britain was establishing "absolute tyranny over these States." And one of the facts submitted in the document to prove this is that the King of England...
ReplyDelete"has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance."
That is exactly what the modern government bureaucracy is now doing... harassing our people and eating out their substance.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteGrateful to you for teaching us some history we need reminding about. Talk about tyranny...did you listen to the president's address at the prayer breakfast? Look up Lance Wallnau's fb page for his superb christian perspective decoding the president's 'christian' sounding words. Very interesting...leading up to tyranny.
ReplyDeletequest—
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the sovereign citizen crowd is. But the fact that the government is evil (as you say) explains why a lot of Americans are getting upset. Government is clearly taking more personal rights these days than they are protecting. And you're insinuation that every American who is upset with this tyranny is an "anti-government nut" is absurd.
The only conclusions I've reached are that Lavoy Finnicum had some legitimate grievances with the BLM (as do many ranchers in the west), and that the government bureaucrats always win when they make up their mind to steal property (land rights, in this instance) from decent, law-abiding citizens.
In those rare instances when someone refuses to submit to such tyranny, government agents will jail them or kill them. The press will destroy their character. And then the government will cover up the evidence with lies on top of lies.
Maybe the rest of the facts of this episode will actually come out in time. I hope so.
Lavoy Finnicum "Today, people who cherish the Constitution of the United States, and the rule of law, as laid out in that Constitution, are considered dangerous extremists."
ReplyDeleteSir:
Lavoy Finnicum was not a patriot! He was a criminal, a terrorist trespasser and bully using the Constitution and the Second Amendment as his excuse to promote anarchy. Finnicum did not respect the United States Constitution, nor did he respect or abide by the rule of American law. He was a self-avowed trespasser who had promised to used lethal armed force if confronted - by law enforcement officials or anybody else who confronted him. He then established scenarios which dared law enforcement to act and trigger a hailstorm of gunfire. He and his ilk prevented other American workers from going to their jobs, doing their work, earning their livings, feeling safe, and living a life free from his and their threatening activities in their communities. They invaded and took over a United States property without permission or authority, and refused to remove themselves from the premises without threat of violence. They were terrorists! When the local community asked them to leave, they did not. When the men who had been jailed asked them to leave, they did not. When law enforcement pulled them over, they ran - and nearly ran over an officer! When arrested, Finnicum clearly was going for his loaded and ready pistol - as he had promised on national television he would do. Disrespecting the Constitution and the rule of law, he did this against a legally authorized law enforcement official carrying out his lawful commission to stop and arrest these terrorist trespassers. This is not respect for the law. You worked in a prison environment. What makes Finnicum less dangerous and more righteous than any of the other crooks you saw in prison? They all are innocent and they all have a higher knowledge and purpose for their actions. They all have excuses. It is always somebody else's fault. Finnicum and these others are no different and I'm amazed you were hoodwinked by their con-game. His diatribe is nothing more than a load of BS spewed as a propaganda cover for his illegal actions.
Finnicum et al did not want the 'land' to go back to the people. They wanted the land to go back to themselves - without paying US, the real owners - or anybody else. Just as Cliven Bundy wants free rent from US for his cattle operation, so these guys wanted free land for themselves, obtained under the guise of 'doing good' for the people. Most of this land they're on about was won through battles and treaty purchases. American soldiers lost their lives to gain this land for us. Now we disrespect our veterans of the past by ignoring their sacrifices to obtain it. They did not want the land to go back to the real original owners - the Native Americans - because they said they had been defeated and had given up their right to ownership. They would not abide by previous court rulings per our constitutional system. They flaunted our laws, they did not respect or abide by them! They also flaunted the Native American's spiritual foundation at that site. Religious freedom is also part of the Constitution and they chose to ignore that right, too.
I enjoy your writings relative to the land and your projects. Your politics is certainly not mine. Your defense of these criminals is abhorent. I will not support you or anyone else who disrespects the United States Constitution or encourages vigilante/terrorist activities in the name of patriotism. Remember, the Second Amendment was enacted to allow the people to PROTECT the government, not to destroy it.
More quotes that come to mind (from "terrorists" and law breakers of their day)...
ReplyDelete"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."
- Benjamin Franklin
"In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The Tenth Amendment is the foundation of the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams
While you and I disagree almost completely on politics, I am a longtime reader of your blog. Still, I was shocked to see you put up this post supporting Finicum. And when you invoked Frederick Douglass for your defense, I wanted to go lie down. I have to say that it warms my heart that several of your readers agree with me. Good to see that I'm not the only one that can enjoy your writing about the things that we do agree on.
ReplyDeleteTim B. Inman beat me to it and said it better than I can: Finicum was a terrorist that vowed to not be taken alive and he wasn't. That's no shocker. He participated in the armed seizure of a government facility, where the invaders told the police to go home so that "no one would get hurt". They've destroyed government property, OUR government property. They've seized government vehicles and used them to make runs to the grocery store in the FACE of multiple law enforcement agencies. This had gone on for weeks. With ZERO action by the government.
It is impossible to ignore that the same people that believe the government is an evil tyrant whose wicked laws are enforced by overreaching jackbooted thugs when armed insurrection occurs are also the same ones that think everyone got what they deserved any time someone says #blacklivesmatter.
And if you don't know what the "sovereign citizen crowd" is, I have to ask why you thought it was a good idea to post this ode to Finicum before you found out.
To Christopher Robinson and the rest of the anons - Terrorist? Who did they kill, behead, blow up or shoot? What did they loot and burn? They may have went about this the wrong way, but they are not terrorists. Terrorists are those from the countries that we intrude in and make war with that we have no business, and terrorism is their only defense in those countries because they dont have the means just yet to retaliate. The ranchers in Burns were protestors. And really Christopher Robinson, OUR GOVT LAND, you know deep down in your heart that govt land is not your land, you personally, nor anyone else can do anything with it but look at it, maybe even pay to look at it, or maybe take a pic with permission at certain times only. what a joke you just spewed, i did not even have to follow the situation in Burns to know that your outlook is what is truly going to be the downfall of our once free country, you have truly been dumbed down.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know a thing in the world about Lavoy Finnicum until he was killed. My curiosity led me to the YouTube movie that I posted here. I listened to it and felt the man expressed himself very well. Ten minutes later I posted it here with my comments.
ReplyDeleteAs I stated in my comment above, I'm not justifying what Finnicum did. NOWHERE have I supported what he and those with him did at the bird sanctuary, or wherever. But as one of the anonymous commenters here has said, there are two sides to every story, and I have an innate curiosity about what people think, why they think it, and how what they think compels their actions.
That's why I will listen to what different socialists on the internet have to say, even though I'm not a socialist. It's why I listen to atheists, even though I'm no atheist. It's what I listen to homosexuals, even though I'm not a homosexual. It's why I'll listen to speeches by Louis Farrakhan, even though I'm not a follower of the Nation of Islam. It's why I'll listen to anarchists, even though I'm not an anarchist. It's why I'll listen to an interview with Bernie Sanders, even though I would never vote for him. It's why I've been reading about Booker T. Washington, even though I'm not black. It's why I listen to Confederate sympathizers, even though I'm a Northerner. Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera.
Listening to other viewpoints, pointing them out as something interesting, and even agreeing with some of what is said, does not mean that I endorse what those people do. It means that I find what they have to say interesting and worth understanding.
When I listened to that Lavoy Fiinnicum interview, I saw a down-to-earth man who was fed up with the loss of his grazing rights which were being taken from him by the federal government. What he said made sense to me because the rights of Americans are being taken away by our government is so many ways. His appeal was to the Constitution, which expressly limits the powers of the federal government. The 10th Amendment makes it very clear that powers not granted to the federal government are reserved for the states or the people. Maybe that's sovereign citizen thinking. I don't know (but I'm going to look into it). All I know is that it's 8th grade history. At least it was when I was in 8th grade.
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ReplyDeleteThe Constitution is being disregarded and trashed on multiple fronts by entrenched, centralized government powers. This really bothers me. I think it should bother more Americans. When someone like Lavoy Finnicum, who has apparently been a good citizen and family man all his life, becomes militant, I think it's worth understanding why. Something tipped him over.
I also know, from my brief stint in a prison bureaucracy, that crimes are routinely committed by "the good guys" and routinely covered up. Government at all levels is very adept at lying and covering up it's crimes. So I question ALL "official" stories and coordinated mainstream media narratives. Besides that, I've come to realize that a lot of people in prison, really don't deserve to be there. There are enough laws now that the government can persecute and jail any of us if they want to.
It isn't important to me that every reader here agree with my viewpoints on anything. Plenty have come and gone in the past. Some because of my Christian writings. More because of last year's "Homo-Tyranny" missive. I don't write to please people or build a large readership. I write about what interests me, as I see it.
I appreciate other people's opinions here. But I don't appreciate anyone misconstruing my words and intentions, insinuating that I'm supporting and endorsing criminals or criminal activity, or that I'm allied with some group called "sovereign citizen" which I barely know anything about. if I'm ever a part of some sovereign citizen group, I'll write about it here. Until then, keep your sovereign citizen accusations to yourself.
What I believe in and what I'm interested in is truth and freedom, in a nation full of official lies and increasing servitude.
Tim—
ReplyDeleteI have never heard that the 2nd Amendment was enacted to allow the people to protect the government. Where did you get that?
Elizabeth—
ReplyDeleteI did not listen to the president's speech. That's one guy I don't listen to any more. :-)
But I did look up Lance W's FB page and I read his analysis. It was very good.
Tim probably still has a hangover from the Stupor Bowl. There are those that still cling to their wings, beer, and the Stupor Bowl. We are done.
ReplyDeleteTo understand the importance, historically, of the Second Amendment study Shay's Rebellion or the Whiskey Rebellion. Afraid of standing armies as they had endured from England's presence in the coloneis, the armies of the American revolution had been dismissed and sent home following the victory of the colonist. Thus, there was no protection for the new American government when an unpopular tax was imposed (the Whiskey Tax). Armed insurectionists were threatening to overthrow the new government. The importance of an armed militia became quite obvious. The Second Amendment was included in the Bill of Rights to address this very issue. It was the need to protect the government, not overthrow it, that was important. The very words of the amendment indicate this: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state...." The free state being referred to in the amendment is, of course, the United States of America.
ReplyDeleteToday, most seem to lazy to study their history. Or, they're too willing to accept some gun lobbyist group's convenient but wrong and inflammatory definition of the purpose and scope of the amendment. Read your history.
"The truth will make you free."
I think what disturbes me most is that no one seems alarmed that a man was hunted down, then shot down, for what amounts to a grazing rights dispute.
ReplyDeleteYou can add all the rhetoric and hype but that's what it was...shot dead over grazing rights.
Are people asleep? Dazed into submission by flickering images on the electrinic devices? Lulled by the comforts...as someone alluded to earlier...the frog in the pot.
I was deeply disturbed by this and other videos about him, just as I was disturbed over seeing an unarmed man gunned down while fleeing police over a nonviolent criminal issue. Does no one see the problem here. Who is next? If I forget to pay my registration, will I too be hunted down ambushed and shot?
Let us be honest...he was really shot down because he stood up for himself, was articulate and intelligent and would have made a good leader...something people are afraid of....
I knew something was wrong with Americans, heck even the world, when it overlooked the mass killings of Bosnians (100,000) but got all het up about 4200 dead Kuwaitis and started a war. Oh yeah, I forgot...the military-industrial complex wouldn't be making any money in Bosnia...nothing worth stealing.
Sorry for rambling.
Be careful Mr. Kimball....show too much intelligence and independence and you'll be next...
"Idiocracy" is not a movie about the future...it's a documentary about today.
Regards, Pam
For the record, Finnicum was fully armed and ready to fire. His pistol was loaded and ready in his coat pocket where he was reaching when he was being arrested - lawfully. He had made it very well known he would not be taken without a shoot out. And Pam Baker is right. Why would a man get involved in an armed shootout over grazing rights? It wasn't the grazing rights he wanted to fight about. He said so. He meant it. It was spoken on live TV, unedited. Words matter.
ReplyDeleteHi Herrick,
ReplyDeleteI’m thankful for the wisdom you share with us and want to congratulate you on the success of this blog, your moral resilience, and financial independence.
Please place a prominent link to your Planet Whizbang store in the header of your blog. It will help remind me to periodically check your store for new products and - more importantly - propagate God’s message and means to peace and prosperity among the ever growing ranks of Christian Agrarians.
God Bless,
Muns
You know, what I took away from watching the video was the emphasis that there are three, and ONLY three branches of American government. They DO NOT include BLM, department of education, or EPA, just to name a few that should not exist AT ALL! Our legitimate three branches are mandated to follow the limits and boundaries of the Constitution. The illegitimate departments like the BLM work according to 'fiat', as I see it. Not to mention the total chaos the other departments have spewed forth, not helping our country in any way, shape, or form, and should be abolished, as should the IRS. Well, I'm venting! Anyway, I enjoyed the video. I learned that the illegitimate department of the BLM just makes up out of thin air and stupidity regulations not in ANY citizen's best interest. There was no vote, no house rep, or senator for BLM, and no BLM regulation passed through Congress to be law outlined by the Constitution. So they by-pass our founding document. The chaos kills, steals, and destroys. What else would you expect from a lawless department? It's power is force behind their regulations that were not meant to be law. They aren't claimed to be law either. I get Lavoy's point. If he was expected to abide by our lawful laws, why not the department? Not by their regulations, but by American law founded by the Constitution? There lies the problem that the BLM is and did cause!!!
ReplyDeleteThe Founders most assuredly were not referring to the United States of America when they referenced "a free state" in the Second Amendment--they were referring to the sovereign states that comprised the US. A big difference then, and a big difference now.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous regarding reference to a 'free state'.
ReplyDeleteYou really need to read your history. Shay's Rebellion is the root of your study. It occurred during the time of the United State's under the Articles of Confederation and triggered the Constitutional Conventions from which our present United States Constitution and Bill of Rights came. The 'free state' referred to in the Second Amendment is indeed the United States of America. Otherwise, to what might that reference mean?
Thomas Jefferson did not see the rebellion as too important - he was in Paris at the time - and his often used quotes reflect that. Washington, who returned from retirement to raise a private militia and quell the rebellion - thus saving the fragile new union - felt strongly that an armed militia was necessary to protect and preserve the new free 'state' we know as the United States of America.
I go with Washington. He is, after all, the one known as the father of our country.
Okay, so I’ve looked into this Sovereign Citizen thing enough to know that it is now used as a pejorative label for anyone who is critical of the government. Furthermore, law enforcement throughout the country are on the alert for anyone who might be Sovereign Citizen, and such people are considered dangerous.
ReplyDeleteSo, if I use my freedom of speech here to write about how I think the government has stepped beyond it’s Constitutional bounds on something, any ignorant or malicious person can simply insinuate or suggest that I’m part of a movement known as “Sovereign Citizen.” When this is done on the internet, the accuser has effectively “tagged” the freedom-loving writer as a potentially dangerous person, worthy of closer government scrutiny.
The person who made these suggestive and accusatory comments above has a hidden identity. I don’t know who you are. I think you are malicious. And I don’t like you.
That said, I’ve removed your comments.
I’m not a “Sovereign Citizen” but I do cherish the Constitutional freedoms I’m supposed to have as an American citizen. And I do lament the steady erosion of these freedoms. And I’ll write about government tyranny as I see it here as long as I still have freedom of speech, which might not be too much longer.
If we don’t use it, we’ll lose it!